Šťouralové se najdou pokaždý, ať je seriál o čem chce vždy je někdo kdo ví víc než ti co to natočili, ale ti co natáčeli nemusejí vědět mnoho a jenom čerpají z toho co jim kdo nakuká. Pár věcí se mi tam taky nezdálo ale pro laika je to super podívaná a aspoň se trošku někdo něco dozví.
Jo a P38 vs BF109 od G10 a vejš se dá na klapkách vytočít
Crackene Il2 není realita.Jak se tu psalo to co dělali Kožedub,Pokryškin...a co děláme my v ilovi se v reálu dělo tak možná v 1 ze 100 soubojů po 43 roce.I na dobových videích z fotokulometů je to vidět.Všude je táhlá zatáčka a útočník co to kropí.A neboj se že kdyby ti na letadlo zabubnovalo byť jen pár kulek z 7.7 mm že bys to nehnal pryč na letiště.
Že by pro Oldse platilo "Jeden jestřáb mnoho vran rozhání"? Nějak pořád nevěřím, že by si ani jeden z těch 50 (!) pilotů nevšiml, že jsou proti nim jen dva lightningy... (Trošku mi to Oldsovo líčení připomíná sovětské válečné filmy podle tehdejších klišé "stateční molodci vs. zbabělí skopčáci"...)
Jinakgraficky se mi ten seriál líbí, škoda jen, že Američani jsou pořád jen "ti hodní kluci". (Málokdo z tvůrců asi pochopitelně vzpomene oblíbenou kratochvíli ameických stíhačů jako bylo střílení pilotů na padácích.... Což sice dělaly téměř všichne národnosti, akorát pro Američany je to nejvíc zdokumentované, tudíž mohlo jít o dost masový jev.)
Upravil/a Cracken dne 07-01-2009 09:47
310_Runner napsal:
Jo a P38 vs BF109 od G10 a vejš se dá na klapkách vytočít
To přijímám
Taky si myslím, že ty poslední těžký Befka Lightninga neukroutěj.Ale zas na druhou stranu, chlapík tam říká, že mohl befko kdykoli vymanévrovat a to už mi nějak nesedí, protože např. barell je s P-38 manévr na dlouhý lokte, zvlášť ve vyšší rychlosti. A utažená zatáčka není jedinej manévr.....
Jinak ale pěkný pokoukání, teda kromě toho, že tam každou věc opakují 4 krát, aby to průměrnému američanovi u TV docvaklo
P-38 mohla vytočit Bf109 v horizontální zatáčce díky různému tahu motorů. Manévr se nazýval "Clover Leaf", tedy čtyřlístek a využíval toho, že Lightning mohl v malé rychlosti změnit rychle směr letu a následně díky dvěma motorům rychle akcelerovat, tzn, že při úhybném manévru skýtal rychlejšímu protivníkovi špatný, nesledovatelný cíl ale zároveň se dokázal po provedení zatáčky rychle dostat na 6ku útočníka. Ovšem chtělo to někoho kdo s tou krávou uměl lítat a koho nepřekvapily síly vyvozené z různého tahu motorů.
Ve šturmu je podle mého názoru Lightning zprasenej nebývale a dají se z toho vyvozovat závěry platné jen v Olegově světě.
[img]http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/public/style_extra/team_icons/founder_gold_en.png[/img] is not a valid Image.
Jestli pamatujete někdo seriál o nadpřirozených jevech který se jmenoval KRAJNÍ MEZE tak ten začínal pár nádhernejma větama které by se hodily i na tyhle souboje. "NESNAŽTE SE NALADIT OBRAZ, CHYBA NENÍ NA VAŠEM PŘIJÍMAČI.........ATD."
kniha Top Guns, Pocket Books 1993, by Joe Foss and Matthew Brennan...
Spitfire XIV a P-38L
The Group, 364th FG, had just recieved P-38L's just before the P-51's arrived..."On a day that we were "stood down", General Eisenhower arranged for one of the top English aces Wing Commander Donaldson, to come to Honnington and show slides of English Spitfires....
S/Ldr. Edward Mortlock (Teddy) Donaldson, a Cranwell graduate took over Command of No 151 Squadron flying Hurricane's in November 1939. He shot down 5½ enemy aero planes up until August 1940. He survived the war ending up as an air Commodore with C.B, C.B.E.,D.S.O. and A.F.C.
After the briefing, Donaldson said,
"If one of u bloody bastards has enough guts, Ill fly mock combat above your field and show u how easily this Spit XIV can whip your best pilots ass..."
The entire group started clapping and hollered, "Big John, Big John!"
That was me, so I asked him, "What is your fuel load?"
He replied, "Half Petrol."
"What is your comabt load?"
He replied, "No ammo."
We agreed to cross over the field at 5,000 feet, then anything goes... I took off in a new P-38L.... I climbed very high, so when I dove down to cross the field, my speed would be close to 600 mph...... When Donaldson and I crossed, I zoomed straight up while watching him try and get on my tail... When he did a wing-over from loss of speed, I was several thousand feet above him, so I quickly got on his tail... Naturally, he turned into a full-power right lLufberry as I closed in... I frustrated that with my clover-leaf, and if we'd had "hot guns," he would have been shot down.
He came over the field with me on his tail and cut throttle, dropped flaps, and split-S'ed from about 1,000 feet... I followed him with the new flaps, banking only 45 degrees, below the tree tops... All I had to do was move over behind his Spit again.. He was apparently surprised...."
Galland a P38:
"One of our last P-38 missions was a flight to protect bombers on a mission near Berlin. My squadron was flying top-cover. We were attacked from above, out of the sun, by sixteen long-nosed FW-190s. I was alerted by a flight leader in our squadron. I saw a flight of four Focke-Wulfs coming in from too high to effectively fire on our flight, so I quickly slowed the flight as we opened up laterally for a defensive break and a head-on attack that the Germans never wanted when they were fighting P-38s. The lead German flight passed very close over me with throttles back, trying to slow down.
I looked up at a German plane. The pilot was looking down at me as he eased ahead and close above me into sure death, unless he could take violent evasive action. He split-S'ed and I followed him. He nearly got out of sight because the P-38 high-speed compressibility problem kept me from staying with him in a vertical dive. I stayed out of trouble by doing a vertical barrel-roll to pull several G forces and keep my speed under control. Finally he turned to find me, and I cut across to close with him. Then the fight started.
He was a fantastic, wild, talented pilot who pulled all the tricks I had ever seen. But finally I got into a tight Lufbery with him and used my 'clover-leaf' surprise to get a few strikes. None of them harmed his power-unit. The long-nosed FW-190 had methyl-injection that was usable for ten-second spurts. Then a pilot had to quit using it for awhile, because the 26% added boost to the engine would burn it up if used too long. This pilot used his methyl-injection very advantageously to keep me from shooting him down. When his methyl was gone, he dived to the deck and dropped into a tar-pit that was about 500 feet deep and wide enough to fly a fighter in a tight turn. I got a few more strikes on him. A portion of his vertical stabilizer and one wingtip flew off. Unfortunately I was getting low on gas and had to break combat and head for the North Sea and England. After two more circles in the pit I pulled up and flew away to the west. I looked back over my shoulder to see the FW-190 going the opposite way, waggling his wings as if to say, 'I'll see you tommorow and we'll go at it again.'
A few years ago the American Fighter Aces had their annual reunion at Maxwell AFB near Montgomery, Alabama. The base commander invited five of the top living German aces. The first day, I arrived in a large hall where over one hundred Maxwell AFB and AFA officers were
gathered. Ace Gabreski, the highest-scoring living USAF ace, who is a friend and a man that I admire to the hilt, was talking with the German aces, along with several other U.S. aces. One subject was the German attitude and tactics related to the P-38. 'Gabby' saw me come into the room and hollered for me to come over. He introduced me as the highest-scoring P-38 ace in Europe.
When I shook hands with German General Adolf Galland (over 300 victories), I said, 'Adolf, did you ever shoot down a P-38?' He said, 'Ya, I shoot down eight.' Then I asked him if any of his pilots told him about a fight in a long-nosed FW-190 in late '44, against a P-38 that wound up in a huge pit with water and two crashed P-38s in the bottom. I described what had happened and the strikes I got on the long-nosed 190, then told him that when I ran low on gas and had to leave, the German pilot waggled his wings as he flew away in the oppostie direction. I was using my hands and looking down as I talked and wasn't watching General Galland. When I looked up, he was pale-white.
He said 'You son of a bitch! You damn near killed me that day!'
Holy mackerel! All the pilots that heard our conversation bellowed their surprise, including me. Adolf wouldn't let me out of his sight for the rest of the day, asking me how I got the P-38 do do what I explained was my 'Clover-Leaf' in a tight Lufbery 'fight-to-death' tactic. He wanted to know how I tranined our pilots and many other questions about tactics!"
(Tahle historka je hodně zpochybňovaná už tím že Galland na Dorách nelétal, či spíše nesměl létat, ale údajně ji Galland sám několikrát potvrdil jako pravdivou)
Každopádně dost moc záleželo jak s tím ten americkej soudruh uměl lítat. Upravil/a WT_Schmouddle dne 07-01-2009 11:45
[img]http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/public/style_extra/team_icons/founder_gold_en.png[/img] is not a valid Image.
kniha Top Guns, Pocket Books 1993, by Joe Foss and Matthew Brennan...
Spitfire XIV a P-38L
The Group, 364th FG, had just recieved P-38L's just before the P-51's arrived..."On a day that we were "stood down", General Eisenhower arranged for one of the top English aces Wing Commander Donaldson, to come to Honnington and show slides of English Spitfires....
S/Ldr. Edward Mortlock (Teddy) Donaldson, a Cranwell graduate took over Command of No 151 Squadron flying Hurricane's in November 1939. He shot down 5½ enemy aero planes up until August 1940. He survived the war ending up as an air Commodore with C.B, C.B.E.,D.S.O. and A.F.C.
After the briefing, Donaldson said,
"If one of u bloody bastards has enough guts, Ill fly mock combat above your field and show u how easily this Spit XIV can whip your best pilots ass..."
The entire group started clapping and hollered, "Big John, Big John!"
That was me, so I asked him, "What is your fuel load?"
He replied, "Half Petrol."
"What is your comabt load?"
He replied, "No ammo."
We agreed to cross over the field at 5,000 feet, then anything goes... I took off in a new P-38L.... I climbed very high, so when I dove down to cross the field, my speed would be close to 600 mph...... When Donaldson and I crossed, I zoomed straight up while watching him try and get on my tail... When he did a wing-over from loss of speed, I was several thousand feet above him, so I quickly got on his tail... Naturally, he turned into a full-power right lLufberry as I closed in... I frustrated that with my clover-leaf, and if we'd had "hot guns," he would have been shot down.
He came over the field with me on his tail and cut throttle, dropped flaps, and split-S'ed from about 1,000 feet... I followed him with the new flaps, banking only 45 degrees, below the tree tops... All I had to do was move over behind his Spit again.. He was apparently surprised...."
Galland a P38:
"One of our last P-38 missions was a flight to protect bombers on a mission near Berlin. My squadron was flying top-cover. We were attacked from above, out of the sun, by sixteen long-nosed FW-190s. I was alerted by a flight leader in our squadron. I saw a flight of four Focke-Wulfs coming in from too high to effectively fire on our flight, so I quickly slowed the flight as we opened up laterally for a defensive break and a head-on attack that the Germans never wanted when they were fighting P-38s. The lead German flight passed very close over me with throttles back, trying to slow down.
I looked up at a German plane. The pilot was looking down at me as he eased ahead and close above me into sure death, unless he could take violent evasive action. He split-S'ed and I followed him. He nearly got out of sight because the P-38 high-speed compressibility problem kept me from staying with him in a vertical dive. I stayed out of trouble by doing a vertical barrel-roll to pull several G forces and keep my speed under control. Finally he turned to find me, and I cut across to close with him. Then the fight started.
He was a fantastic, wild, talented pilot who pulled all the tricks I had ever seen. But finally I got into a tight Lufbery with him and used my 'clover-leaf' surprise to get a few strikes. None of them harmed his power-unit. The long-nosed FW-190 had methyl-injection that was usable for ten-second spurts. Then a pilot had to quit using it for awhile, because the 26% added boost to the engine would burn it up if used too long. This pilot used his methyl-injection very advantageously to keep me from shooting him down. When his methyl was gone, he dived to the deck and dropped into a tar-pit that was about 500 feet deep and wide enough to fly a fighter in a tight turn. I got a few more strikes on him. A portion of his vertical stabilizer and one wingtip flew off. Unfortunately I was getting low on gas and had to break combat and head for the North Sea and England. After two more circles in the pit I pulled up and flew away to the west. I looked back over my shoulder to see the FW-190 going the opposite way, waggling his wings as if to say, 'I'll see you tommorow and we'll go at it again.'
A few years ago the American Fighter Aces had their annual reunion at Maxwell AFB near Montgomery, Alabama. The base commander invited five of the top living German aces. The first day, I arrived in a large hall where over one hundred Maxwell AFB and AFA officers were
gathered. Ace Gabreski, the highest-scoring living USAF ace, who is a friend and a man that I admire to the hilt, was talking with the German aces, along with several other U.S. aces. One subject was the German attitude and tactics related to the P-38. 'Gabby' saw me come into the room and hollered for me to come over. He introduced me as the highest-scoring P-38 ace in Europe.
When I shook hands with German General Adolf Galland (over 300 victories), I said, 'Adolf, did you ever shoot down a P-38?' He said, 'Ya, I shoot down eight.' Then I asked him if any of his pilots told him about a fight in a long-nosed FW-190 in late '44, against a P-38 that wound up in a huge pit with water and two crashed P-38s in the bottom. I described what had happened and the strikes I got on the long-nosed 190, then told him that when I ran low on gas and had to leave, the German pilot waggled his wings as he flew away in the oppostie direction. I was using my hands and looking down as I talked and wasn't watching General Galland. When I looked up, he was pale-white.
He said 'You son of a bitch! You damn near killed me that day!'
Holy mackerel! All the pilots that heard our conversation bellowed their surprise, including me. Adolf wouldn't let me out of his sight for the rest of the day, asking me how I got the P-38 do do what I explained was my 'Clover-Leaf' in a tight Lufbery 'fight-to-death' tactic. He wanted to know how I tranined our pilots and many other questions about tactics!"
(Tahle historka je hodně zpochybňovaná už tím že Galland na Dorách nelétal, či spíše nesměl létat, ale údajně ji Galland sám několikrát potvrdil jako pravdivou)
Každopádně dost moc záleželo jak s tím ten americkej soudruh uměl lítat.
Já sice anglicky umím, ale jsem teď po obědě ňák línej si to překládat. Takže se ptám, o čem to je ?
no, teda predstava, ze potkam v lajtasu gallanda v dore..takova mala nocni murka..ale ocividne kdyz s tim lajtasem covek umel..i kdyz ten oleguv lajtas je spis takovej sturmovik..
Upravil/a 3IAP_Dryjo dne 07-01-2009 12:36
Ahoj,
Po půlce života jsem si vzpoměl na svoje létání. Bohužel si pamatuji už jen starý Il-2 1946. Co se tedy teď létá poraďte mi kde bych objevil staré veterány.
IL-2 Sturmovik™, Cliffs of Dover™, Pacific Fighters™ are trademarks or registered trademarks of 1C EUROPE, 1C-Multimedia, 1C ONLINE GAMES.
Other marks used herein are those of their respective owners.
.)
ale ocividne kdyz s tim lajtasem covek umel..i kdyz ten oleguv lajtas je spis takovej sturmovik..
